I Think You Know
an interview with
The Sawtelles
by Frank
Critelli
Olympia
Diner
Berlin Turnpike, CT
10.31.04
Frank: Okay,
first things first, everybody wants to know. Explain
“Nerve Rock” as a genre.
Peter: I don’t
know. Nerve Rock just seems to be an accurate description of
what we do because it’s a lot of different elements that come
together. We had no term for what we did. I mean, I
guess everybody’s stuff seems different to them, right? Would
you agree with that?
Julie: Yeah.
P: And, I
don’t know. The legend is that...We were playing at
the Empress Ballroom, and it was an all-ages punk show and some kids
were like listening to us play and one kid said, “What kind
of music is this?” I think one of the other kids
said “Nerd Rock.” And I misheard it as
“Nerve Rock,” so we just kind of adopted
that. But I think it’s grown out of that.
I think it’s music that’s improvisational by nature
that’s based out of the songs that I write. And
that means that they could morph from gig to gig or over many
performances. We don’t have one set way of playing
any song.
J: I think Nerve Rock is
not jam, funk, jazz, punk, folk. It’s kind of
little bit of everything thrown together. Some guy last night
in Fleischmanns called us edgy-folk, and that’s
okay. That’s falls into the Anti-Folk type thing.
P: If you think in terms
of the band, the performance philosophy is that we morph the
presentation to the venue that we’re in. The
Sawtelles have always been a looser sort of thing.
J: We played Las Vetas on
Friday completely unplugged. Now tonight we’re
going to be blastingly loud.
F: What other bands do you think
fit into that category?
J: Probably different
bands at different times during different songs.
Sometimes some of Bret Logan’s stuff, because sometimes they
can totally go off on a tangent. Sometimes they just get in
this groove and it goes someplace. Sometimes Lys
Guillorn’s stuff, you can’t really pigeonhole her
either. Sometimes Carlos Project can be Nerve-Rocky.
P: We don’t
rehearse. It’s just subject to change. If
we had to rehearse every week, I’d probably quit the
Sawtelles. Music for me is a different thing. I
trust Julie and Pete to do
the right thing. I trust their
judgment. I’d rather have them constantly putting
their two-cents in...
J: ...and have it be
spur-of-the-moment, free, not tied down to anything.
P: I was influenced as
much by Charles Mingus as the Beatles. There are elements of both
styles of music there. I equate it with more of a
jazz sort of thing: the interpretation changes depending on the
performance.
F: Do you make set lists or do
you just make it up as you go along?
P: We wrote set lists
earlier on. I suppose if it was a 25-minute showcase show
where we were trying to show off a certain aspect of what we do, I
would write a set list. Most of the time there is no set
list, but there’s a master list of all the songs that we
currently do. So if I’m really stuck, I can look
down. I usually try to get a feel for what the next song
should be when I’m playing the current song...like what
direction do we want to take it. I try to pace it.
F: Part of your appeal in live
shows is the physical interactions with the audience like prize
giveaways...
J: That stuff’s
all new. Peter and I would be all set with just going up and
playing music and not talk at all, but it just seems like the more you
put yourself out there, the more people will pay attention and see what
you do. I think it’s also trying to make
friends... Sometimes we’ll be at a place and
there’ll be nothing to talk about and people are doing
whatever they’re doing, and we’ll just play the gig.
P: For me, if
it’s a good night I can interact a lot with an audience
whether it’s telling a story about the song or...
J: The pigs! (refers to
driving to a gig in Amenia, NY and seeing two pigs running wild and
free on the side
of the road)
P: Oh, we have a new
story...Today, coming over. We’re driving through
Waterbury and this guy’s changing lanes from the middle lane
to the left lane, which we’re in.
J: Where 84 joins up with
8 North. I’m driving, and I see this guy in kind of
like a tourist-y vehicle and first he was in the first lane, then the
middle lane, and it looked like he...Tell the rest of the story!
P: He just keeps going
over and then all of a sudden he has two wheels up on the Jersey
barrier.
J: And the car like
smashed into the barrier, and I’m thinking ‘Oh my
God. it’s going to flip over!’ I saw him drift over
and I was wondering if he just wasn’t paying attention.
P: I didn’t
know if he was looking at the Holy Land Cross or he fell asleep or...
J: I didn’t
know what was going on with this guy, but all of a sudden the car was
up on the Jersey barrier and I saw the whole thing coming.
There was dust and smoke.
P: It didn’t
flip over, and he didn’t blow out a tire. He went
back into the middle lane and drove with his hand over his face like
“I’m such a moron...” But
that’s the kind of thing we would bring to a show...Like the
thing with the ringtone (referring to Billboard magazine now
charting cell phone ringtone downloads). I heard
that story on the news, and I thought “how
ridiculous.’ But the other part of my brain was
trying to think of how I could cash in on that. But some
nights it’s a struggle for me to interact with an audience at
all.
J: It depends a lot on
the vibe. Sometimes you get that crossed-arm sort of vibe.
P: Or something
immediately goes wrong...
F: Do those interactions ever
break the momentum of what you’re trying to create musically?
J: Yeah.
P: I think the second
time we did that (giving away glamorous dollar-store prizes
to audience members), I was like “Okay, enough
prizes, let’s play.” It’s
weird. I wouldn’t like a band that was totally
goofy and not serious at all, but yet, sometimes I think it’s
pretentious when they’re so totally serious all the
time. You have to strike a balance, and that balance is
different all the time. That may be one of the things that
may have appeal for the Sawtelles over time...that it is different all
the time.
J: Maybe it creates
little memorable events that people can key into, but you
don’t necessarily have to do it all the time. We’ll
at least do it once a year on our birthdays. But whoever got
the 30-pack Family Comb set will remember that, you know? We
spare no expense at the dollar store.
P: People have different
schticks.
F: Change gears just a
little. Talk to me a little bit about how the songs get
written.
P: It mostly all comes
from me...that’s about ninety-eight percent. The
two percent might be if Julie and I are rehearsing something and
I’ll just start playing a riff or a couple of
chords. She’ll say, “What’s
that?” And I’ll say, “I
don’t know, I just made it up.” She
encourages me to push myself and finish it. But most of the time
it’s just me sitting there.
J: I can’t
write. I have no inspiration, no desire to write
songs. I don’t feel any pull.
I’m not compelled to write songs. Maybe he’ll play
something, and I’ll say, “That sounds like this
kind of idea.”
P: And then
I’ll take that and turn it into lyrics.
It’s almost like being commissioned or something like
that. I don’t necessarily wax and wane over
it. We were driving back from a show that we played, and she
said, “That thing you were working on should be about this.
And I found a pen and an envelope in the car, and I wrote before we got
to the Mass Pike. Sometimes it’s easy when somebody
says, “Just do this.”
I’m not sitting there trying to express myself; I’m
sitting there trying to express the idea that was brought up.
It’s hard to divorce myself or make myself do that all the
time. I’m a big minimalist in terms of lyrics; I
very rarely have a song that’s like a story. I tend
to be more fragmented lyrically. I really want someone to
interpret it. “Rain” is
probably the closest I’ve come to a story song.
“Garden” is so fragmented, really only I know, or
you (refers to Julie) might know what
it’s about. It’s definitely about a true
event, but I just wanted to portray it impressionistically.
F: I’ve been listening
to Yellow for a week, and you definitely have a
knack for saying a lot in a few words.
P: Well, I think my big
rule in lyric writing is that the speech rhythm in the lyrics has to
fit the melody rhythm. I’ll pair my lyrical idea
with the melody idea. I’m not a Dylan type of
guy. Once the melody is written then I tailor the lyrics to
that melody. And I’m happy with paring it down or
pushing the envelope of the idea, or the impression, or the image to
fit with that. That’s my own personal thing.
F: So would you say that you
write from a musical place or a lyrical place?
P: I try to strike a
balance but definitely the melody has the last say over almost
anything. Actually some of the songs are about two things at
the same time. They could have been two totally different
songs, but I come up with a couple of lines that have to do with the
car accident we saw in front of us. Or I’ll come up
with a couple of lines based on something somebody said to
me. I’ll have those two ideas in my brain at the
same time, and I’ll morph them into one song. So to
me it’s about two things at once because I thought of those
things one after the other, or one made me think of the
other. But the melody has the last say. To me, the
best pop songs are the ones with the strongest melodies.
Second, how the melody fits over the chords. Third, the
general “feel” of the song.
(we are interrupted
here by the waitress who brings more coffee)
F: I might have been able to
guess that most of the songs come from Peter, but to the casual
observer at a show, it definitely seems like a group effort.
Julie, you seem to me to be like the “secret
weapon.” You seem to lead by hanging back, and you
play the song instead of the drums. What’s
different about the way you approach your instrument than a more
typical rock ‘n roll drummer?
J: I have no training
whatsoever. Most of the time, Peter will play a song and it
will speak to me and I’ll know exactly how it needs to be
played. Occasionally, I’ll get stuck. On those
stuck songs, it might not go anywhere because I just can’t
get past that. It doesn’t give me any ideas...but
that’s so infrequent. I grew up listening to a lot
of music, I see a bazillion concerts, but I have no idea about notes or
timing. I play by instinct, really.
P: She has a dance
background. We would be driving along and a Led Zeppelin song
would come on the radio, and she’d play the drum part on the
steering wheel. She has an innate sense and love for music.
F: I was watching you pretty
close this past Tuesday night at cafe nine, and Julie has a very
melodic style. You were talking about the importance of
melody before. You seem to put together very interesting
combinations of snare and tom and cymbal...like a tap dance is a more
melodic style of dance with the different heel and toe
sounds. Do you think your dancing might have pushed you in
that direction as a drummer?
J: Yeah, I’ve
taken tap. Tom Dans (the Furors) says my
playing was very staccato, or syncopated, which might actually come
from my tap background. A lot of it might be from osmosis
because I’ve listened to Peter play drums for so
long. A lot of things I might come up with are things
he’s already done.
P: The thing about the
Sawtelles is that there’s a balance. There are
times when people play and when people hang back in all three
parts. All three parts could be taking the lead in some way
at any time. It’s very equilateral, and I like to
have a balance between melody and musical support. I like
space. I feel fortunate that the Sawtelles have developed the
way they have. It’s everything I could have hoped
for the songs to have. Even when we play as a duo, that
element is still there. There’s a delicate balance.
F: As a trio,
talk to me a little bit about the chemistry that you have in a live
setting.
P: We started playing
together quietly and in close proximity.
Acoustically. We started off playing strictly coffeehouse
gigs and grew into the clubs. We learned to play quietly
first and that gave us the ability to listen to each other.
If somebody goes somewhere or steps out...Pete is prone to playing a
solo or a lead part. Some of the songs live have an
open-ended bass solo or lead part like “Mr.
Attitude” or “I Think You
Know.” We always lay back and let him play.
F: He does a lot of interesting
things on bass. Is that you giving him room to breathe or...
P: Yeah.
It’s really only like less than four times a year that
he’ll actually play a note over a chord that I
don’t agree with and I’ll say, “Resolve
it to this note.”
It’s really very rarely. I play a lot of open
tuning and partial chords so he’s more free.
He’s also says he’s more free because
there’s no kick drum. He’s not tied down
to playing a beat that’s married to the drum part.
The drum and guitar provides the outline, and the bass connects the
dots. Pete’s bass playing is very active, and it
makes my guitar parts seems more like rhythm parts.
J: You play differently
when we play as a duo.
P: Yeah, definitely.
J: You play more
actively. We’re more random and might go off on a
tangent.
P: It’s all
very natural. The best thing I could do for the Sawtelles is
not tell everybody what to play. I let the song dictate
instead of me dictating.
F: How do you compare the
Sawtelles on record with what you are capable of live?
P: I think on record
you’re getting the essence of the song. I try to
get the most concise version of the song for ease and economy of
recording. Less is more. You’re always
going to get the shortest version of any Sawtelles composition on
record.
J: Except for
“Garden.” It’s till a minute-fifty-seven
no matter where we play it.
F: The Sawtelles
seem to have a certain mystique among other bands in CT.
P: We do!
F: Hey, I’m just
telling what I’ve observed!
P: No, that’s
awesome!
F: How does it feel for you guys
to be considered among your peers to be the Real Deal?
P: Good.
J: Yeah, that’s
awesome.
P: I always think of
success in terms of the jury of my peers. And if people we
know say nice things, I feel really happy. I feel happy that
we’re getting across. That kind of response from
peers means the most to me.
J: The thing with us is
that we’re not “straight-up.”
Someone made the observation that we are an acquired taste, and I agree
with that.
F: Part of my experience with the
Sawtelles was like a Buddhist’s Enlightenment. All
of a sudden, one day I looked at you and it clicked. A light
went on somewhere and I thought, “Holy Shit, these guys are
fantastic! Why didn’t I hear this when I put Yellow
on for the first time?” I
felt like I had taken acid for the first time.
P: I think some of my
favorite bands have worked that way.
F: So what’s the
appeal? Why do so many artists like the Sawtelles?
Ray Neal (Miracle Legion, Jellyshirts) told me the
other day that you were his new favorite band. I’ve
said those exact words, and so have other people:
“They’re my new favorite band.”
P: To me, those comments
mean that we’re along for ride with everyone who’s
serious about what they do. So maybe that means
we’re serious and honest about what we do. We just
go up there and try to get it done the best way we can. Some
nights you think we suck and I can’t get out of my own way
musically, and people will think it’s great. And
some nights you think you play a great show...
J: ...and nobody says
anything.
F: I’m
going to push my original question: what do you think it is about the
Sawtelles that appeal to other artists in particular?
J: I don’t know.
P: I would say
it’s honesty.
J: I mean,
we’re not Mick Jagger; we just do what we do.
P: We do it because we
love it, and maybe that comes across. I’m just
happy that people say that about us.
F: It’s
well-known fact that the Sawtelles must have been cloned because
you’re everywhere. If you’re not out
playing, you’re at someone else’s show.
How much have other artists in the area influenced your work?
P: A lot. We
have this thing in the Sawtelles called “The Bastard
Award.” Anytime we hear a song that we just think
is awesome we say “You Bastard!” because I wish I
wrote it. Some of Mr. Ray’s stuff. Some
of Bret Logan’s songs; “To The
Lake.” To me, it doesn’t get better than
that. The Furors. I think we’re
influenced by everybody. When I hear something
that’s really good, it makes me want to do it too.
Miracle Legion. Dum Dum Boys. Camera
Face. The Scene and wanting to be a part
of it, that’s what influences me.
J: We’re trying
to build the scene. We like going to see the people we know.
P: There are so many
people whose music I love, and I want to hear them play live.
J: When I lived in
Massachusetts, I never went to see a local band. But when I
moved down here, I was totally blown away by some of the local bands
that we saw. I couldn’t believe it. I
never knew how good local music could be until I moved down to CT and
started seeing shows in New Haven.
P: There was a whole
other world you never knew existed.
J: Oh, absolutely.
P: I think the best
music, especially in the U.S,. is music existing on the local
level. Maybe that’s part of the Sawtelles appeal,
we’re pests. We’re always
around. You can’t get rid of us.
J: (laughs) They
won’t go away!
P: ...but in a good
way. In a supportive way.
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